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Howell EFI kit install (Edit: swapped for MS now w/mpfi)
https://mail.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5212		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Pierre [ Sun Mar 30, 2003 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  update
Well the code turned out to be a false alarm, I never saw it again after I reset it.

Again I went at it... trying this and that but nothing seemed to work. I put the scope on coil -, where the computer is getting triggered and noticed perhaps it was a bit more noisy then need be, so I tried putting in a radio noise suppression cap on the coil but that didn't do much. I gave up and decided to get an MSD 6a box (& blaster 2 coil while I was at it), because the tach output is a clean square wave.

Aside: Another reason for msd coil was because all the diagrams in the install instructions showed it with a blaster 2 coil, and didn't say anything in specific about using it with a coil/ballast combo like the original setup. Since the coil I had in there was marked clearly to use external resistor, I decided I may as well avoid the hassle and just get a MSD coil and wire it straight to the box w/o a ballast.

And indeed it does produce a nice clean square wave... but for some reason, the wave isn't good enough to trigger the computer! Zero gas came out the injectors... I tried putting the trigger back to the - of the coil, but to no avail. Uhoh.. thought computer went poof. But no, I wired up the mopar electronic ignition again (but still left the blaster2 coil in it), and injectors were working as before, the engine still stalling

I probably need a special adapter or something for the msd 6a box. I'll call up howell again tomorrow and this time be in front of the car while I am talking to them.

Frustrating... but still I can not 100% prove its the kit components just yet so I still want to put more effort into getting this setup working, especially since one of the guys there at howell told me someone in a 87 dodge ram 225 is running their setup

Btw, do NOT use cheap 5mm plug wires when dealing with an msd setup... you should have heard how loud my brother screamed when we were testing for spark. He claims his fingers didnt touch the metal and the spark arc'd from the wire...
Author:  Pierre [ Mon Mar 31, 2003 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  update
Well... I hooked up a scanner to the system and all seemed well, all the sensors were functioning. Apparently the computer does not report an rpm value until the engine is started (above 400 rpm is the definition of starting, I believe?)
I finally found a fuel pressure gauge locally.. the pressure was fine, about 18psi at the pump, then about 12psi when hooked to the throttle body and injectors on.

I talked to the howell guys and noted... the only possible thing left is ignition/computer. So we ended up with this:
Going to send me new computer (probably the cause of why the IAC motor is making some noise with key on/engine off, and un-stable engine)
MSD tach filter (they said you need a special filter to use an MSD tach signal to trigger computer)
TBI Pod (injectors/regulator assembly - to take care of leaky injector)

The leaky injector isn't a particularly huge deal but might as well send one package, eh? The msd tach filter/computer should eliminate any ignition problems. After this, there should be no reason why the engine doesn't turn over and stay running, even if it is running rough. Cross your fingers for me... if this doesn't work out I sure am going to be peeved.
Author:  Pierre [ Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Sweet Mother Of Mary!
It works! YAY! I installed the "MSD Tach filter" and removed the original filter. Then hooked the msd ignition back up. First time it was a no go... i reversed the distributor magnetic pickup wires to the msd box and... vroom vroom! Finally. After all the hassle.... now I have to neaten up all the wiring to get it driveable and give it a road test.

If anyone is planning on a howell or any other efi kit for that matter... I'd highly suggest installing a MSD box and using the tach output with appropriate filter for the computer. It will save you lots of hassle in the long run!
Author:  Dart270 [ Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Congrats, Pierrre. Keep us updated about how it runs and the improvements over your carb.

Lou
Author:  Pierre [ Sat Apr 05, 2003 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  almost there.....
Starting to neaten everything up now... I noticed when I had the return line going to a 2 gallon tank I kept near by, fuel pressure was at 12psi. When I had fed the return line through the original vapor return line, it jumped to 18psi. There is no restriction in the vapor return line I cleaned it throughly before by shooting about a cans worth of carb cleaner through it then blowing it out with air.I believe the vapor saver tube in the trunk isnt letting the gas flow fast enough back into the tank, or the tank vents are too small. I am going to T in teh vapor return line between tank and fuel filter tomorrow.

Also I have noticed a consistent code 45... exhaust too rich. This means its either computer or o2 sensor. Well I have a second computer they sent that I will try. I may need an even leaner chip... We'll see... I want to get the stuff under hood done and the return line taken care of so I can drive the beast. Then I'll worry about the too rich condition. Heck I'll take the scanner with me on the ride to see whats up. I did shift the tranny into gear while just sitting there on the driveway and rpm didnt change, it stayed steady from idle. I thought that was cool :)
Author:  Pierre [ Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  update
I drove it today... ahh it was good to get the car moving after a month. It rode decent... the program might still need some fine tuning. I opted not to take the scanner with me... I didn't want to keep my eyes on it instead of the road ;) Maybe next time I'll take someone along with me

The code 45 is still there... couldn't get it to go away no matter what I did. The engine runs fairly steady under open loop, but when it goes closed loop every 30 seconds or so the engine rpm will drop, almost to the point of it dying, then it rises steady, and cycles over and over. Code 45 will set, then the system will stay in open loop until code is cleared. I think the wiring to the o2 is messed up. The scanner reports the o2 voltage changing and toggling between exhaust rich and lean (lean when its about to die...) and the system does go closed loop within a few seconds of turning it on, so I would think the heater in the sensor is active. The thing with the wiring is there are 2 black, 1 blue and 1 white wire for the o2 sensor. Assuming the black wires are ground for heater and ground for sensor... the grounds in the harness don't mate with the grounds in the sensor. I have a feeling everything ended up getting reversed, like sensor ground goes to computer and sensor + goes to ground, but then I think the computer wouldn't display o2 readings right.. hm we will see what they say tomorrow.
Author:  Pierre [ Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  wiring
They said the wiring is fine, that is how its supposed to be. I gave them several readings off the scanner at various rpms and he agreed it just seemed rich all across the board. Going to get another chip.
Author:  kesteb [ Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
That 18psi of fuel pressure may have something to do with the richness.
Author:  Pierre [ Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  richness
It was rich either way, with the external return tank or with 18psi and return to the onboard tank. I T'd in the return line between the tank and filter, and that worked fine the pressure stayed at 12psi running.
Author:  Pierre [ Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:42 am ]
Post subject:  bummer...
Chip didn't get here.. ah will have to wait until next weekend probably. Got a set of msd 8.5mm superconductor wires on there. ooo.. the red is so purdy.

Oh and side note those weren't 5mm wires I had in there before they were 7.5mm. The 7. was smudged over. But just judging by eye and comparing to the msd's.. they sure look smaller then 1mm. Anyhow... the plugs I have in now, the tips looked a bit funny so I got some new autolite 66's and will run them at 0.040 gap to see how it fares. Is there any consensus on what kind of plugs/gap to use with MSD ignitions?
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Plugs and gaps won't matter too much. I usually run 0.040" or so. Autolites are fine, although I use NGK V-power GR4 or GR45.

Lou
Author:  Pierre [ Sun Apr 20, 2003 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  oh yea....
Put in chip #3 and new plugs gaped to 0.045
Now there is no code set and it stays in closed loop after driving, but the rpm still goes low and high, although at no where near the difference as before. After nicely warmed up, I'd say the variance is less then 200 rpm, and the low end is at 750 or so

But man, the car feels real nice now. And.. drumroll please... it can burn out now Put in neutral, floor it, drop it in drive and tires squelch for 3 seconds or so ;)

Next test is to get my speedo working and drive it around so I can get an idea of mileage.
Author:  Tom Drake [ Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like the Idle Air Speed motor is not programmed correctly. You can check this by disconnecting it and if the motor smoothes out you have found the problem.



tom
Author:  kesteb [ Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you keep up the "floor it, drop into drive" the tranny may be laying on the road after a bit....
Author:  Pierre [ Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
I know I know... its a freshly rebuilt 904 too. I just wanted to hear it peel out. I'm pondering putting a shift kit into it...

Actually I think I'm more worried about the 7 1/4" welding itself together then the 904 dieing... Next project after the fuel injection is to get that 8 3/4 A body rear in there that has been sitting for a few months.
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