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One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
https://mail.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66288		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  lgu32 [ Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
I have E85 fuel (only), stock compression and very conservative ignition. 34 degrees at 100kPa and -2 degrees for each 10 kPa of boost. So at 0.8 bar boost it has only 18 degrees advance. 180 degree thermostat and huge aluminum radiator with electric fan controlled by the ECU. Can stay idle at the line up for full day if needed. No any signs in pistons or anywhere about detonation.

Stock oil pump. Stock Clevite bearings.

Will use thicker oil for next. But I also will reduce the max boost as the parts are all the time harder to get.

Image
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
I am surprised there would be crank trouble at this boost level. The 170 crank should be plenty strong, I believe. Also, with E85 and only 0.8 bar boost and 18 deg timing, it would seem detonation is unlikely. Sorry to hear about the troubles and good luck with the repairs.

I suppose you might try a different rear main seal cap, and/or look at the cap and block groove with everything bolted on and the crank out, to see if that cap registry is the problem?

I cannot say from your pictures, but some glossy finish should be normal on bearings that are wearing in. Maybe it is more than I can see. Best of luck!

I have a good used 170 still sitting on my shop floor, and a new turbo piping setup in the works. Maybe in the next year or two I can get that together and do some testing..

Lou
Author:  lgu32 [ Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
Image

The real seal area is now without threads but no more undersized like it was.

The factory neck with threads is 71.36 mm and this is now about 71.75 mm which gives some more pressure to the seal lip - I hope so - my test with my payment.

Compared to my previous 225 with a truck crank this 1965 170 unit is really lightweight. That is the reason giving me thoughts that this will twist and shake under boost.

My first target is to get the car running without leak. We have here rules which make a professional inspection because of the turbo. I cannot go there if this is dripping all the time. Before inspection I have to get measured the engine output. There is some limits how much I can add. I assume this goes over the 273 4 bbl in net HP at the day this works well.
Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
Good luck with it!

As we try to continue to push the envelope of what has been done previously with older and somewhat less available parts, it will be harder to keep things working properly.

You should have nice long days however in your region to work on stuff from ~ 05:00 - 23:00
:D :D :D
Author:  lgu32 [ Sat Jul 01, 2023 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
Yes. I have just now long days to made tests and trials. Sunrise was today 4:22 AM and because I am at the top of the hill this realizes to my bedroom just in time!

I have been thinking how to reduce of the consumption of rare parts. Sorry boys but it was me who bought the last 0.020 bearing shells from Rockauto. I set an alarm to get informed when a new batch arrived. Sure you have all local stores full of those but here we are also totally out of that size.

I did an order for weaker spring to get boost about 3 PSI down. As well I set my timing set to "0" which gives 106 degrees centerline to cam. It was 4 degrees more advanced before. I tried to get the low end upgrade but it wasnt that much what I got. And against the reqular motor oil I will use the same I use with my 883/1200/turbo motorcycle; Castrol 10W60 "Edge".

I really feel I am on the edge with this project.

Anything positive? Yes. This doesnt pollute heavily now.
Author:  Exner Geek [ Sun Jul 02, 2023 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
The 170 crank should be more rigid and less likely to flex than a 225 because the rod journals overlap the main journals by an extra 1/2". I would think it would be a good choice for what you are doing.
Author:  Dart270 [ Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
I also do not see the 170 crank as being an issue. You are not making tons of HP or spinning it really high RPM either. I think King is still making engine bearings of many different sizes. Summitracing shows a bunch of sizes for both cast and forged cranks.

I wonder if your "shake" could be detonation somewhow?? Have you pulled spark plugs after runs to see if they are speckled?

Lou
Author:  lgu32 [ Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
Plugs were like never used. No nothing on them. E85 keep combustion chambers clear. Intake runners and everyting after exhaust valve were covered with rust. Stop and go driving and E85 doesn't seem to be a good pair.

No not a sign of detonation. My milled 225 did a pinging sound at the end of full pull acceleration but this doesnt seem have such habits.

Little less boost and hopefully this works longer than it did before. I am just finishing the engine after crank modification.
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
OK, good luck and have fun!

Lou
Author:  lgu32 [ Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
Image

I found this from an old 170 engine I bought for parts. I have installed it in to the my turbo engine.

The difference I can see is that the oil pressure indicator will shut down much faster than with a short tube. But could this cause pressure loss? There is nothing inside. The size is equal to the original short pipe.
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Jul 03, 2023 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
Personally, I would not run that, but I cannot say if that is your problem. Is it possible the top of the tube is getting too close to the top of the oil filter and restricting flow and pressure? I always use a short tube with no standpipe or valve inside. I have run engines for decades and (one engine abused heartily for >200,000 miles) with no ill effects. I had one of the versions with a standpipe and valve cause a drop in oil pressure at higher RPM (race engine). I pulled all that out and cut off the standpipe and it went away.

Lou
Author:  lgu32 [ Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
I had long filters so the tube isint hit to the bottom of it. But I was thinking the air inside of the filter. Both the inlet and outlet are down. With an average oil pressure the air inside of the filter will compressed to the "last inch" of the filter. In some situations the air bubble could be sent to the line. If it is just wide open throttle case it could be killer for the bearings. I will change the short tube.

I think the factory extended pipe with valves is the worst a man can get for high performance use. It is smaller and causes pressure losses.
Author:  lgu32 [ Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One more overpressurized slant six from Finland
I was fighting this year against rear seal leak. There was plenty f trials as I pulled the engine out 4 times. I tested the engine on the stand with pressurized air in and leak detector out. And it did it again - and again.

But it is now fixed. I have an ecu controlled electric vacuum pump making some vacuum (lower pressure in the engine than outside) and no leak.

Standard Motors AIP27 used originally as a smog pump did the job.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aBSwbxfeclc
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