The problem is, it seems like everything is just rusting out from the bottem up. Not to mention the fact that some morons decided to smash my windshield. I can't really afford to keep fixing these things, at least not while going to University. And when things just break over night, it wories me what might happen while driving. I think its time for a new car.

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...or maybe just a less rusty old one. Sorry, I know they're difficult to find where you live. Take a bus south and drive a nice solid one back.

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

Sounds like a good trip for next summer, I'll have to strongly consider it

Gregor

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Let this be a lesson to every mopar guy...When looking at an A body:Spend the time to crawl underneath and see what's REALLY going on !! It's better to have rusty 1/4 panels than a rusty frame !! ALWAYS check torsion mount areas, as well as leaf spring mounts........[springs just waiting to break through the trunk floor] ......

MOPARS are like women,Sometimes you have to let go.....Nobody ever said PIMPIN' was easy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 77 volare---------63 valiant

So, I finaly got the chance to get under the car today and look at the front suspention, I can't see anything visibly wrong with it. What is it exactly that holds the front of the car up?

btw, I think I will keep the car, just to have as a project.

-Gregor

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Ok, Gregor........you asked what holds the front end up.

Remember being under the car....right? Remember seeing a round steel bar, starting at the lower control arm, and extending towards the back of the car, but stopping at a crossmember a little bit forward of the back of the transmission?

Those are called torsion bars. They are round in the middle, but have a hex shape at each end. The diameter of the round part is dictated by what engine is in the car, plus a few other factors.

The way a torsion bar works is basic physics.....if you try to twist a material, the structure of the material resists the twisting force being applied to it, right? Ok, if you try to twist a steel bar, then it's also going to resist that force. IF, however, one can contain the bar, and then apply a twisting force, then the bar will apply that force elsewhere on the fixture that is containing it.

This is what's happening for a front suspension. Mopar used a steel bar as a spring, by forming it with a hex at each end. The aft mount point in the crossmember is fixed, (or supposed to be). The forward mount point is a rotating socket contained within the lower control arm. Once the torsion bar is installed into it's mount points, then a bolt is turned, (you'll find the bolt between the sides of the lower control arm, as viewed from under the car), applying our twisting force to the torsion bar. Because the bar doesn't want to twist, then the "fixture" has to react in some way. (Remember, equal and opposite forces applied.) The reaction that we get is the force being applied to the lower control arm, in an opposite direction, causing the front of the car to be pushed upwards.

I'll stop here, but will add a healthy dose of caution. There is a lot of force contained in a torsion bar under stress. DO NOT attempt to remove it, or the lower control arm, without relieving that stress first. If you don't understand how, get experienced advise first.

Roger

What advantages does a torsion bar suspension offer over other types of suspensions?

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82 D150-225/727
02 Dakota-3.9/5 speed
87 GMC C7000-8.2 Detroit Diesel/5+2

GTS225 = "Mr. Science"

Very nice explanation

I'll give $100 to anyone who can show me how to get a loaded torsion bar to come out without the use of explosives, though!

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

Alright, GTS225, Thank you very much.

I took a second look, and yeah, my tortion bar snapped in two

I guess I wasnt looking in the right place. Is this something I need a shop to fix, or can I do it myself?

How expensive?

thanks again, Gregor

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Well, Dennis....You got me there.

Roger

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Yeah, I've seen a few cars where one of the bars snapped, so you're not alone.

You CAN do it yourself, but it isn't easy, considering the rust you've shown us.

Expense? Depends on where you get your parts. You can find new bars for about $150US a pair. You might also be able to grab a pair from a salvage yard at lower cost. It's also possible that there's a fellow Canadian on this board who has a set, (or even a single), that he can let you have.

This does give you an opportunity, though. If you want to lower the front for a bit different attitude, you can get a pair of bars from a small block car, install them, and adjust them to a slightly lower ride height in the front. Being as the small block bars are larger diameter, and therefore a bit stiffer, you end up with about the proper spring rate with the lower front end height.

Roger

Let this be a lesson to everyone who was encouraging gregOr to junk his car before anyone had even looked at it...

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

Did you look at the pictures? I did. In my area, that's like $1000 worth of welding and fab, just to get it to pass a state inspection. Most places wouldn't even want to be bothered with that sort of repair. "Junking" the car was not my suggestion, but now that you bring it up.

I encouraged him to CONSIDER looking for a car with less rust. I'm happy just the same if he can keep this car going, but would it be the best decision for him?

It's getting to be a big project for someone who may not be a willing participant. I respect everyone who is offering help to gregOr. Please try and understand that a bus trip for a solid no-salt southern mopar is just as reasonable an alternative as welding large portions of the underside.

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1980 Aspen 225 super six

GregOr's front suspension problem turned out to be a bad torsion bar, not rust... (or perhaps it was weakened with rust?). His rear hanger problem and the torsion bar are two different problems, in my view. My only point is identify the problem before everyone just assumes it has rusted away, yada yada yada... A torsion bar is a straightforward fix.

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!