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Standing on the brakes
https://mail.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64106		 Page 3 of 4
Author:  valiant_200 [ Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
After a week of heavy driving, I have the following report on the MC36338 master cylinder:

We drove The Vert over 500 miles during Cruisin' The Coast this year. The stopping power gradually improved as the week went on, but the pulsing brake pedal was quite annoying.

By Friday I could take no more. With the help of a friend, I spent part of the evening chasing down problems. We replaced a tire that had a small bubble forming and that took care of some of it, but the pulsing brake was still there. Between my wife and I, we figured out that it was the right front brake that was pulsing. I searched through the shop and found the hub and drum I had taken off in favor of the inferior new part. I sanded the rust off the friction surface and repacked the bearings and swapped it back on the car. That cured the pulsing and, with a round drum to work with, I was able to adjust the brakes a little tighter. That brought the brake pedal height up to an acceptable level and made the weekend driving a lot safer.

I'll keep you posted on the progress. Right now I am looking for all the parts I need to refurb these 10" hub assemblies.
Author:  mpgFanatic [ Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
Quote:
Meanwhile, I am refurbishing a 10" drum brake setup from a 71 Duster that I have sitting around. Maybe some badass drums will make a difference in stopping power
Well, it should, but only if everything else is working properly. Weren't you planning to measure hydraulic pressure before you continue chasing the cat's tail?
Quote:
and retain the 4 inch bolt pattern so I can continue to annoy people with my steelies and wheel covers. :P
In my younger years, I did what every younger person does: inflicted the "coolness" of mag wheels and raised white letters on anything that rolled. Didn't matter if it was a hot rod or a grandma-car, didn't matter how stupid our parents' generation thought it looked… :) And the kids are doing the same thing today with whatever cars are available and cheap. Though I don't see raised white letters much anymore.

In my more mature version of me, I have a good appreciation for a stock steelie, as well as a hubcap made of thick enough metal that it won't fling off. Even some of the younger folk can appreciate -- a guy said to his friends as he walked past, "wow, factory rims too! Dude, that's sick!" As he walked away, my neighbor laughed and said, "you do know he means that as a good thing, right?"

But the 10" drum idea, yes. My 66 Fish never had any problem stopping at all. It was a noticeable [nay, stunning] improvement over the 65 Valiant's 9" units. Granted, it's not in the same league as retrofitting Viper or Corvette 6-piston calipers or whatever… as much fun as that would probably be. But in my opinion, the badass drums will work well enough to be worth the effort. Nice that you have some -- good luck finding any more. There's a disc brake conversion that specifically uses the 10" drum spindle, so they're in more demand than one might otherwise suspect.

- Erik
Author:  valiant_200 [ Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
I would put rims on the 62. I think a set of Classic Cragars and a decent paint job would make that car pop. I'd need to do something about the rear end to make those bolt patterns match.

On the other hand, I want the Vert to stay as close to stock appearance as possible. That car wears 14" whitewall tires on stock steel wheels, topped with wheel covers donated from a 62 Fury. It has had this look since 1988. The look is a nod to the car I drove in high school, which was a 64 Valiant 200 station wagon with 14 inch whitewall tires and 62 Plymouth wheel covers.

And you are right. I need to order that gauge. I'm blowing money like a drunken sailor on this, but I am so dog tired of the piss poor brakes that I will mortgage the effin' house if I have to!

Thanks for hanging in here with me. More to come I assure you...
Author:  Dart270 [ Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
What about Scarebird discs?

Lou
Author:  valiant_200 [ Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
I don't know much about them. Are the hubs small enough to accept stock steel wheels?
Author:  mpgFanatic [ Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
Quote:
What about Scarebird discs?
Quote:
I don't know much about them. Are the hubs small enough to accept stock steel wheels?
Those are the kits that require the 10" spindle, as far as I recall. By the time you change all that over, you may as well use the drum parts that you already have. No point in spending money on discs until you try that. And no point in bothering with even that until you see what's really wrong. The gauge is probably cheaper than any other part you could throw at it. Get some hydraulic pressures and the future direction will likely become blindingly obvious -- and if not, someone here is bound to know how to interpret them.

In my stock 64 Valiant with 9" drums all around and stock tires in good condition, I was able to lock all 4 wheels very easily. (I discovered this at about 20 mph, much to my own surprise, during an avoidance maneuver.)

- Erik
Author:  mpgFanatic [ Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
Quote:
Quote:
What about Scarebird discs?
Quote:
I don't know much about them. Are the hubs small enough to accept stock steel wheels?
Those are the kits that require the 10" spindle, as far as I recall.
Whoops, my mistake. They now offer a kit for 9" and a kit for 10". Must have been old information in my brain.

Everything else I wrote still stands.

- Erik
Author:  valiant_200 [ Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
I looked at the Scarebird brakes on their website. They are an interesting alternative, but since I am already well down the road to refurbing the 10" drums, I think I will continue on that route and hope that they are enough.

I will keep them in mind as an option if the big drums don't work out.

Does anybody know the best practice to get the lower ball joints loose without butchering them? I don't want to take a pickle fork to these, as they only have about 30,000 well maintained miles on them.

I really appreciate everyone's input on this. My wife likes to say, "many hands make light work." I will paraphrase that by saying, "many minds make light work."
Author:  valiant_200 [ Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
Is the bleeder size on early A Body brakes 1/4 - 28? I need this info so I can order a gauge.

Edit: I removed a bleeder screw from a scrap cylinder and it does appear to be 1/4-28.

I know I have encountered metric bleeders in Valiant brakes. Are the threads the same?
Author:  mpgFanatic [ Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
Quote:
Is the bleeder size on early A Body brakes 1/4 - 28? I need this info so I can order a gauge.
Hmmm, interesting. I guess a bleeder would be a useful connection point. Myself, I was imagining creating a T fitting, such that I could remove any regular 3/16" line and tap into it, while simultaneously reconnecting the other end back into service. By doing it that way, I could use the same T contraption to get 6 readings (the two master cylinder outlets, and at each of the four wheels.)

But I like your idea better, at least for the 4 wheels. Then the only time you need a mid-point connection is for the MC. (Or anywhere else in the middle that could be suspect, depending on your findings.)

- Erik
Author:  SpaceFrank [ Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
I've seen metric bleeders on aftermarket wheel cylinders (generally from China). They're usually a smaller thread than the SAE threads on older bleeders.

Eventually (next year?) I'll be trying Scarebird discs on my 1964 Valiant. The kit I'm looking at bolts onto the 9" drum spindle and retains the small 5 x 4" bolt pattern, it just requires the (Chevy Celebrity?) rotors to be custom drilled. Will supposedly work with stock skinny 14x4.5" wheels, but some aftermarket calipers need to be mildly clearanced. There are supposedly no disc brakes anywhere that will work with 13" wheels.
Author:  valiant_200 [ Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
I am going with 10" drums from a 70's era Duster on my 65 Valiant.

Does anyone here have experience with this particular swap? Specifically, which tie rod end should I go with, stock for the 65, or the ones that match the newer brakes. The difference seems to be that the older ones are angled and the newer ones are straight.

Older style:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... iR5X3%2Bjb

Newer style:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... iR5X3%2Bjb
Author:  rich006 [ Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
I'm several days late and probably more than a dollar short here, but is it possible that you reversed the connection to the front and rear reservoirs when you installed the dual master cylinder? The smaller front reservoir should be connected to the rear brakes, and the larger rear reservoir should be connected to the front brakes.
Author:  jcc [ Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
Just to be clear, the reservoir "size" itself, has no bearing on brake pressure/effectiveness.
Author:  valiant_200 [ Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Standing on the brakes
The plumbing seems to be correct, but I will double check when I have a chance.
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