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D100/150: 1977 versus 1986?
https://mail.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47478		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  supton [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  D100/150: 1977 versus 1986?
Ok, I see a couple possibilities for me, locally. Not sure what is better. Obviously the one with less issues. Assuming similar (or preferably no) problems...

So I found a 1977 long bed, extend cab, but it does have some rot. I don't recall it being extensive, but I need to see it again. 4 speed manual, power nothing. Versus a 1986 long bed auto. [225's obviously.] The 1986 is amazingly low rust, save for a chunk missing above the windshield.

Neither will be a rocket nor set mpg's, both have rust issues to deal with. My question would be, how much of a headache would getting stuff like calipers be for the 1977? Would the '86 (assuming good shape) get better mpg's than the '77? The 1977 D100, would that have a cat? I'm thinking yes, but I don't know the precise ins and outs of the emissions laws back then.
Author:  wjajr [ Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Supton:

Try this:
Take a sheet of paper bisect it vertically down the center, label left side 1977, right 1986.

List deficiencies of each vehicle, its cost to repair, and time to do the work on each repair in respective columns. Then add’em up.

I know that this all analytical, cold, and way too logical, after this exercise in silliness you will pick the apple of your eye regardless…

By the way, how’s life with the stinking TV remote trucks and hub-bub over there in NH these days? LOL
Author:  supton [ Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Good point. I'm mostly concerned about what I'll find afterwards--you know, like it'll need a caliper, and they're made of unobtainium. I like how you phrase you conclusion, though!

Well, I only watch TV during the newshour, and that's about the only exposure I'm getting (unless if I'm online, and intentionally pursuing political discussions). Things will get nicer in oh about a week...

<edit> Did a google search, yep, cat is listed for that 1977. Drat, I was kinda hoping it somehow squeaked by. [I know passenger cars and trucks are generally listed together by the EPA, but hey, one can hope.] Only because the odds of having that cat 35 years later on what looks like a farm truck is, err, yeah right up there.
Author:  wjajr [ Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
supton:
Quote:
Well, I only watch TV during the newshour, and that's about the only exposure I'm getting (unless if I'm online, and intentionally pursuing political discussions). Things will get nicer in oh about a week...
A bit off topic, but priceless:

I found this article about a restaurant no longer putting up with mayhem caused by palls and media…

A comment quote from one of the article's readers:
Quote:
windygeo:
Way to go guys. Nothing like trying to put up with some jacksss while your are having a nice breakfast.
BINGO! My thoughts as well! LOL

Bill
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:28 am ]
Post subject: 
I can't think of any mechanical parts that will be particularly difficult to get for the '77 truck. Most of the running (steering, stopping, etc.) gear is the same between the '77 and '86. Pick which vehcile is in better condition and better suits your needs. The '77 could have a cat (meow!); the '86 will have a cat (meow!) as original equipment.
Author:  supton [ Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:57 am ]
Post subject: 
wjar: I saw that last night on the news. Fun stuff!

SSD: Really? Well, that'd be good. I usually don't spell out catalyst because I only remember how to spell it for short periods of time! Not that I want to necessarily increase emissions as much as dealing with various regulations and prior owners.

Thanks for the help. I think this weekend I'll wander over and see about test drives and whatnot. Just wanted to have more background info.
Author:  Rob Simmons [ Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Take a sheet of paper bisect it vertically down the center, label left side 1977, right 1986.

List deficiencies of each vehicle, its cost to repair, and time to do the work on each repair in respective columns. Then add’em up.

I know that this all analytical, cold, and way too logical, after this exercise in silliness you will pick the apple of your eye regardless…
We call that exercise a "Decision Matrix". :wink:

I use it often, actually... :shock:

The other ingredient to add is to give each "criteria" a "weight" based on how important it is to you.

Brainstorm what ALL the factors are first: gas mileage, parts availability, current condition, cool factor 8) , etc., etc... Whatever you come up with that would be a deciding factor for you.

Then, assign each factor, or "criteria" a weight of 1 thru 5 based on how important it is. Low to high or high to low, your choice.

Last, add up all the numbers and pick the one that makes the most sense based on your criteria.

Or,... just ignore it all and pick the apple of your eye regardless… :lol:

Good luck, and let us know which one you pick. :D
Author:  Slant Cecil [ Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
'77 D100, cat. '77 D150, no cat. Required cats were based on GVW. That's why the D150 with the heavier GVW came about. '78 D150 was also exempt, by '79, EPA raised the GVW and D150s had cats. Eventually, the GVW was raised to include the D250 and D350, I'm not sure what years. I know the D350 was still exempt in '85. You could order a '77 D150 headpipe (that's what I have on my '84) and change to D150 badging if needed.

The electric in the '86 is better, less chance of an amp gauge dash meltdown from dirty/corroded connections. I do like where the fuse box is in the '77, in the glove box, easy to get to. The '86 is under the dash by the steering column.

The '77 has a 5x4.5" bolt pattern, the '86 a 5x5.5", this would be a concern if you already have the wheels you want to run or want to run 16"/17"/20" wheels off a newer Dodge RAM.

If the '77 is manual steering, make sure to drive it first. The wheel will be hard to turn when going slow and if the box is worn out, finding a replacement will not be as easy as a PS box.

Drip rail rust above the windshield on the '86 seems to be more common the further south the truck is. I think it stems from the excessive southern heat drying out the caulking used to seal the pinch welded seam. The caulking dries up, shrinks and peels back exposing bare metal. Morning dew and time finish the job leaving you with a rusted top.
Author:  supton [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Great info! I appreciate that. I've got 'bout zip experience, just mostly book learning.

I recall looking at the '77 last summer, and I walked away, between not convinced I "needed" it and because I think at least one or two spots was rusted through. [Why is that rust through is listed as merely "rust" on CL?] I suspect it'll need body work prior to a sticker.

The 86, oddly enough, has that drip rail damage that you spoke about. To the extent that a 2" tall by like 6" long region is missing, from above the windshield to above the rail! He chiseled out the rust, and used RTV to "fix". A bit worrisome, but I suspect it's a more solid truck. It was oiled every couple of years, and it appears the only damage was the winshield, and drivers floorpan, from dried out window seals. Albeit with a 904 lockup, and a missing catalytic convertor (sorta required, sorta not: Fed law of course says "yes" but NH law, if one reads it, says it's ok if it's missing if it's over 20 years old). And already in need of an exhaust manifold...

Am working on seeing them again.
Author:  Romeo Furio [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just some FYI, I resently picked up a360 ci 88 D350, no computer,no cats.Maybe 89 was the last year in the 350 series?
The rust in the roof is very common even out here in the desert. A friend picked up a 78 forest service 1/2 ton and that was the only rust on the truck. Another was a 92 w350 a 89 D150 and a 88 w250 all had the same roof rot on otherwise rust free trucks.Maybe a bad sealing compound between the inner&outerroof joint. Now that is the first place I look.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Just some FYI, I resently picked up a360 ci 88 D350, no computer,no cats.
Hacked by a previous owner. Last year any non-cat gasoline-fired roadgoing vehicles were offered new in the North American market was 1984, and that was in Canada only. Last year in USA was 1977 or so for passenger cars and light-duty trucks, and not later than 1980 (probably earlier) for heavy-duty trucks.
Author:  ESP47 [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm late to the party but I'd go with the 77 every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Does the rust on the 86 cause water to leak in the cab? For me, that's one of the most annoying problems with older vehicles. Almost never cheap to fix.

Remember the 86 is probably going to have some form of leanburn whether its feedback or non feedback. Feedback is going to look like a mess under the hood and while non feedback looks cleaner, you're still most likely going to want to swap it out for a traditional setup if your emission laws allow it.

As far as getting parts goes, you won't have much of a problem getting anything from sheetmetal right now to the nuts and bolts. The junkyards around here basically have zero old cars but we have a dozen 72-86 pickups sitting in the yards at any time. So you should have your choice between junkyards and buying online.

Go to rockauto.com and open up the directories for each truck and check out all the stuff they have so you can get an idea.
Author:  supton [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Ok, I gave in. 1977. Have my lunch, grab the agreed-to purchase money, and go back to get title. Then temp plate (Tuesday?), home, quart of POR15, quart of bondo, and we'll see if it stickers.

Parking brake feels frozen, and the brakes feel spongy to my 21st century braking standards (but I did get four wheel lockup on snow covered ice...). Usual rust on the body, but it appeared structurally sound. If the goal would be just a few years as a work truck, then I think it'll be just fine. All lights work, heater works. Tires weren't that bad either (but I won't be surprised if it needs some front end work--what doesn't at 168k?).

Did seem to run rich, and the throttle I think stuck--or got stuck on high idle at some point. No catalyst, did not see a evap cannister (wasn't on right front corner--forgot to look left), no Leanburn (saw a vacuum advance on the distributor). Feels like it does want that granny low (in the NP435) to get moving, but, the clutch has about a quarter-inch of work to it (come off the floor a quarter-inch, it starts to engage; go another quarter-inch and it's full engage) and the throttle has that annoying "kick it" hangup at the start. Oil pressure seemed kinda low, in that it may have been 10ish psi at hot idle--but the oil smelled like gas so it may just be drastically due for an oil change. Horn doesn't work (watch for finger?), manual steering, and the seat is a bit ratty.

But it was assembled the month I was born, so that makes it all right.

I think I'll attack the rust with POR15 (removing the loose stuff of course), then maybe pop-riveting metal as necessary (or maybe even bondo, dunno at this point). The idea being, stop the rust where it is at, and then later, if I decide to, do the repair right (metal plus welding). Apply metal patches (rivet?) as necessary. Then sticker, then deal with issues as they pop up... This won't be fun, I don't think my driveway warmed up to 30F today!
Author:  Jeb [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
My throttle has the annoying "kick it" hangup also. It's really funny when somebody is riding in the truck with you and you come off the line like a bat out of hell.

On mine it feels almost like a sort of suction is holding it down. Once you get the blades opened to a certain point it works fine. Just off idle makes passengers spill their coffee and slides stuff around in the back of the truck.
Author:  supton [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jeb, I think I noticed that in dad's old Astro van too, which was TBI--but not as bad as this. I'm not sure if it's some spot that needs lube, or some bushing that has a groove worn in it. Might be carb bushings for all I know, causing the butterfly to hit the side of the carb. I should have a month or two to look at it, while doing the body fixing.

Have to start shopping now. FSM and door seals at a minimum. Already have the Stockel book for 1978. Will price out brake parts too, but I'm hoping to do that job later on. Of course I forgot to look at the lines down by the wheels, but the ones under the hood were quite crusty. Won't hurt to start at the master cylinder, replacing everything, and stop at the wheel cylinder. I'll have to decide if that's something I'll tackle at home (in the great outdoors), take the mechanic who will let me help (lighting, heat, experience--same guy who works on my VW and who also is a Mopar nut, albeit of the V8 variety) or drop it off with the guy who does my inspections (nice old fellow).

Vehicle was on the road last year, and appears to have been garaged at that. Too bad it'll sit in my yard to get rained on.

Will have to do a bit of junkyard shopping. The bench seat folds down as you'd expect. But the back is split. One release button is missing. Nice feature, never heard of a split front bench, let alone in a low-option truck. Yet no headrests (hope I don't get rearended). Oddly enough the title says it's a D10, not D100.

Title in hand now. Should be home on Tuesday.
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