I have to replace the ring gear, the starter and put it all back together to see if it does it again I guess.
I have a bad feeling I will have to disassemble it all again if I can't find the cause!
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| Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth https://mail.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61790 |
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| Author: | azclpherigo [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
I have a 1987 Dodge D100 with a slant six, automatic trans and 66,000 original miles. I've been driving with no problems for months. A few weeks ago I pulled out of a parking lot and all of a sudden it started making a grinding noise. I pulled over and popped the hood and could tell it was coming from the starter. I milked it home and the sound would come and go in varying degrees of intensity. I pulled the starter and instantly could tell about an 8th of an inch of the front end of the teeth where ground away. I inspected the flywheel ring through the starter hole and it looked ok, but was shiny on the edge. I got a new starter and installed it. It made the exact same noise. I pulled the starter and compared it to the thousandths to 2 older slant six starters I have laying around. It is perfect. I checked the tin spacer, it is perfect. I checked the trans bolts, they are tight. I checked for voltage on the starter wiring, with the ignition on, thinking maybe the starter was trying to engage a little, 12 volts from battery, 0 from relay until key turned to start. Checked starter on the ground with jumper cables, engages and disengages perfectly. Truck started perfectly even with the grinding after the starter disengaged but I was worried the flywheel was cracked and decided it had to come apart. So I pulled trans and found that the flywheel ring has a 4 inch section of the teeth that are ground down about an 8th of an inch on the edge! Is it possible for the flywheel ring to flex or become distorted, even though it is pressed on to the torque converter? Bell on trans has no cracks. The cross shaped plate on the crank seems to be in good condition with no cracks, but I'm going to pull it and see if it is bent. As I understand it, the torque converter can not wobble because it centers in the end of the crank. Any ideas? Any help is greatly appreciated. |
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| Author: | Joshie225 [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
Pry the crankshaft back and forth to see if the crank thrust bearing is shot. I once saw the crank walk back and forth nearly 1/4" on a running engine. It would move front to back whenever the throttle was snapped open and was causing the flex plate bolts to hit the starter shim/seal plate. Crank end play though should only be around .007" if memory serves. |
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| Author: | azclpherigo [ Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
I tried moving crank and it has no play if any. |
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| Author: | Joshie225 [ Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
That's a good sign. I wouldn't rule out an electrical problem. I would mount an LED to the dash and connect it to the starter to see for certain that the starter is not being engaged electrically. I say LED as they turn on much faster than an incandescent bulb. |
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| Author: | azclpherigo [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
I have to replace the ring gear, the starter and put it all back together to see if it does it again I guess. I have a bad feeling I will have to disassemble it all again if I can't find the cause!
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| Author: | Joshie225 [ Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
If the crank isn't moving fore and aft then it is likely the starter not releasing or the starter being activated by a faulty ignition switch or wiring fault. |
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| Author: | azray [ Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
This may be a little late to do any good, but it could be the nylon parts in the starter are broken and not holding the starter gear back when not engaged . Mine did that awhile back, It would make noise when I would back up and hit the brakes, the starter gear would slide back and hit the flywheel , forward braking it would slide away from flywheel. I took parts out extra starters to repair, was a fairly easy fix. |
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| Author: | azclpherigo [ Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
I found the problem!!! Torque converter has a crack in the shaft right down the side of one of the notches! So fine you almost miss it until you run your finger around it! That caused it to wobble! Never seen that before. No metal in the pan and unbelievably the front seal never leaked. I'm going to change the pump, front seal, torque converter, filter and starter and go from there. Everything else looks perfect. I don't think I need a rebuild as it only has 66,000 miles on it. Anyone ever seen that before? 
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
I think you are talking about the pump drive hub on the engine side of the converter. Yes, the stockers commonly crack after long usage or high HP. I always get the "alloy" pump drive hub on my converters. I think it's 4330 steel? Lou |
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| Author: | azclpherigo [ Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
Its the tube that slides into the trans and on to the splined shaft coming out of the trans. So it would be the trans side of the converter. There are square notches in the end and the crack starts at the corner of one of those notches and runs down towards the converter its self. I'm wondering if changing to a manual trans might be a better option? A 4 speed would really help as this is a pickup. |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
Yes, that is called the "pump drive hub". It is common for that to crack on engines that see higher HP or RPM, and even some stockers. Did you have any vibration when you revved it in neutral, before this leak started? If you replace this hub with an alloy hub (or a custom converter with such a hub), it should not happen again. Lou |
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| Author: | azclpherigo [ Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
I didn't notice any vibration and there was no leak, but the flywheel ring started grinding on the starter. The sound was kind of orbital if that makes sense. I strikes me odd that you say it is caused by high HP or High miles, we are talking about a stock, smoged Slant in a half ton pickup with 66,00 original miles. If I don't swap to manual I will get the alloy pump you suggest. Thanks for the input. |
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| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
Quote: I strikes me odd that you say it is caused by high HP or High miles
Yes, I've had the "ears" crack on a stock 225/A904 convertor with a high miler stock engine. Both 1976 Volare and 1975 Dart Sport...
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| Author: | Pierre [ Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
I have a feeling you have (or had) more then one issue. Assuming nothing else is broke the flexplate should be stout enough to hold the converter square so nothing rubs the starter. As mentioned the starter when functioning normally should retract the drive gear well out of the converter's way. |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flywheel ring rubbing starter teeth |
Yes I don't follow either. Even if the hub is cracked why is it pushing the torque convertor towards the starter's teeth?  Unless the flex plate is broken also?
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